People living with dementia, their families, friends, care sharers, and caregivers face a great many challenges. The prospect of ensuring everyone touched by dementia receive the care they need can be… baffling.
Not to mention the feelings.
Each person touched by dementia experiences a radically personal and unique life event.
One that has never been desired.
How do you ensure these people have good quality of life, with appropriate activity, love, and respect, as well as care – and that the stigma surrounding dementia is finally resigned to the past?
The Creative Dementia Collective of Kaylee Allen, Erin Staadecker, Jael Weinberg, and super pup Rosie is on a mission to do all of the above, using art and music, pet and talk therapies, all customized for the individual living with dementia. And those who care for and are touched by this condition.
Have a listen, then check them out at their website, CreativeDementiaCollective.com.
Be sure you’re also taking care of yourself in times of grief and change, and schedule a consult with Wendy at HeartHealingFromLoss.com.
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Episode Transcript:
Hello, and welcome back to the heart healing from loss podcast. This is Wendy Sloneker. You’re listening to episode 29.
This episode is the one where I share an interview that I had with three pretty amazing healthcare pros from the Creative Dementia Collective. Now, more and more, as I’m speaking with more and more of you out there, I am hearing how dementia in all its many forms is coming to touch many of y’all’s lives.
So whether you are a care partner, you’re somebody living with dementia or navigating your path with dementia. Please listen to these three fantastic humans, plus me. I would love to just hold this space for more information, a little education from professionals who were work with people who are touched by cases of dementia in every form, gather a little bit of comfort and wisdom from them.
And thank you for listening. Here we go.
I am delighted to introduce a hundred percent of all of you who are listening to my voice right now to introduce you to the Creative Dementia Collective! Welcome. Welcome, please. I’d love to have one of you three experts. Talk about what the Collective is.
Kaylee
Absolutely. Thanks for having us. First of all, we’re so excited to be here talking to you. My name is Kaylee, just for, for your listeners to understand this is the sound of my voice.
The Creative Dementia Collective is three of us. You’ll be introduced to Erin and Jael in a moment. But what we do is we strive to smash the stigma for people on the journey with dementia.
That means people living with it. And also anybody touched by care partners, their whole community around them. It’s not just the individual who is living with dementia. It impacts everybody.
We also bring in elements of community support, dementia, education, expressive therapies, like art and music therapy, pet therapy and legacy work to help those living with dementia really thrive and also maintain those moments of connection and meaning for their peers, for their loved ones all the way from early diagnosis through end of life.
So we work both with the care partners, the broader community, and also those living with dementia directly.
Wendy
Amazing. Amazing. And you mentioned there are three of you we’ve heard a little bit about the Collective. Would you tell me a little bit about your participation and strengths in the Collective?
Kaylee
Sure. Yeah. I’m a board certified music therapist and that’s the piece that I bring. I also have a sweet, sweet pit bull named Rosemary and she is a pet therapy certified and she does the pet therapy stuff.
In music therapy, what I’m basically doing is I’m using elements of music from lyrics, rhythm, melody, harmony, all that sort of stuff to accomplish non-musical goals.
So for somebody living with dementia, those could be goals about connecting to loved ones, maybe a song sparks a memory that allows them to have a moment of connection with somebody.
It can also be expressive. I do songwriting with people. That’s a really fun way to express. It can be non-verbal expression through instrument play or dancing, and it can also be a, a con to process really complex emotions, emotions that are so often beyond language.
When those feelings get too big, so often, music can help us put voice to that. Maybe I can’t put my finger on what I’m feeling. But a certain song, “Ah, if you listen to this song, that’ll explain it.” And it helps me to feel my emotions, to process my emotions, to express my emotions and also to put them into a container.
So, I can have that feeling and then know that that song is there and I can put it on a shelf and go out through my day and function.
One of the most important things is that I use client-preferred music. So whatever is the most important music to you, that’s, what’s gonna get your neurons firing in your brain. That’s what’s gonna help us really have a fair therapeutic experience. So if it’s the Grateful Dead (for a client), it’s the Grateful Dead.
Wendy
Let’s go. Let there be spinning too, if we can.
Kaylee
Yes.
Wendy
Yeah. It’s so good. I love what you said about processing your feelings, even if you can’t find the words, cuz then it’s also safe to feel. Which many, many people who are in grief and who are touched by dementia, I’m guessing are like maybe, you know, sometimes afraid of our feelings as well.
I know I have been, oh my gosh. I would love to hear from the other members of the collective as well. Erin, please, will you introduce yourself?
Erin
Hi, thank you so much. Um, my name’s Erin Staadecker and this is the sound of my voice.
I am one third of the Creative Dementia Collective. In my role, I am a Dementia Awareness Trainer. So I am trained in Teepa Snow’s philosophy, which is called Positive Approach To Care.
And I like to bring that dementia awareness piece mostly to folks who are supporting somebody who’s living with dementia. So if I may, can I insert one little dementia awareness moment that we’ve already probably heard your listeners might have noticed some of the language that we’re using things?
The top 2 most important things
You’re gonna hear us use the term “living with dementia.” We believe that the way we speak about dementia is really, really important. It creates the world and the culture around dementia care. So we’re mindful about the language that we use.
So we say, “a person living with dementia” instead of, you know, “a demented person” or “an Alzheimer’s patient” or something like that.
Something that identifies them as a disease versus a person who’s living, still living y’all with a disease and is learning how to navigate the different challenges that come with the disease.
But that they’re a person first and for that reason, we say “person living with dementia”.
And the second one is dementia itself. What is that?
You know, to get that stigma out of the way.
Dementia is not one thing.
There’s not one type of dementia. It’s actually a syndrome or a collection of symptoms literally caused by damaged brain cells of the brain that are dying.
So a lot of people automatically associate Alzheimer’s with dementia. Alzheimer’s is one type of dementia. The Alzheimer’s symptoms lead to the dementia that we see presented in people’s behavior, in their ability to logic and reason in their communication.
It can affect vision, you know, motor skills, safety awareness, things like that.
So it’s also not only associated with memory and memory loss, but along with Alzheimer’s, there are about 125 different types of dementia. Alzheimer’s it’s just accounts for about like 70, 75% of those. So it’s kind of the, the front-runner that people are most familiar with.
Wendy
Right, right. So useful. I didn’t know very recently that like there was a hundred, well, like I got an abbreviated list, I guess, of the different types of dementia that were around.
Erin:
Probably the, the abbreviated list is, you know, um, Alzheimer’s from a temporal dementia, Louie body, um, vascular dementia. Then there’s a lot of little other ones. It literally just means that there are parts of your brain that are dying and that it’s a chronic journey.
Wendy
Wow. Thank you so much. And one more important part of the collective is Jael. Welcome. Please introduce yourself.
Jael
Hi, thank you so much. I’m Jael Weinberg and this is the sound of my voice.
I will probably get much more pressured and loud as I get very excited about a topic I’m speaking on because that’s how I roll. And I get very excited about things and like just really, really energetic to talk about my favorite stuff.
I am a Licensed Mental Health Counselor and I’m a Registered Art Therapist. And what I contribute in the collective is a different branch of creative expression. Kaylee’s the music therapist, and I’m the art therapist.
We kind of combine forces in creative arts therapy or expressive therapies as it’s sometimes called, but art the is a specific discipline and it is a combination of psychotherapy and artistic expression or the creative process and using the creative process as a tool in service of healing.
What makes art therapy so wonderful for people living with dementia is that it offers, similar to music, a nonlinear form of communication.
So communicating through language takes a whole lot of structure. I think most people can recall back to their school days of like the kind of groans of the students on grammar day, um, learning how to structure a sentence and what order things go in. And what’s the subject, object, preposition, you know, all that.
And organizing language is very difficult to do as our brains change and kind of shift structure. And so offering people a method of communication that does not require a temporal organization, right? One thing happens, the next thing happens. It, he communicated all at once is a really, really helpful tool.
And then on top of that, just being able to express feelings is good for our nervous system. There’s a lot of research being done kind of on somatic therapies that unless we complete an emotion cycle, right?
An Emotion Cycle
So we feel a thing.
Our body releases chemicals and we having this kind of biological reaction and then it has to go somewhere, do something, right?
With those chemicals either we cry and that activates our parasympathetic nervous system. And then we feel better. Or we’re angry and we scream and that releases the energy and then we feel better.
Creative arts therapies, art, anything expressive helps people kind of complete that emotion cycle. And it’s really healthy for our nervous systems.
I also specialize in legacy work, which is helping people tell their stories in a way that honors, how they want to be remembered. So legacy, where is a way to empower people, living with dementia and empower their loved ones to talk about life, talk about the things that were meaningful, preserve elements that hold resonance or, or magic or importance or love or power, right to an individual or to a family and find a way to preserve and then share that because as humans, our deepest deepest desire, whether we wanna admit it or not is to not feel irrelevant.
We want to know that we were here and that we mattered and that people knew that we were here and knew that we mattered. And we’ll talk about us, hopefully when we’re gone and we don’t just disappear into the oblivion of the universe. And so kind of on that deeply, deeply human level, right?
Offering people at end of life or with a chronic illness or terminal illness, a way to preserve their human meaning on an interpersonal level. Like we talked about the benefits of creativity, but also on a deeper, deeper existential level of, you know, I’m a human, I was here. Did I matter? Does anyone care? And you know, our answer is hell yeah, of course you did.
Wendy
Oh my gosh. Meaning like, “what am I doing here? Here with my time here with my life?”
I love and appreciate so much that there’s such focus and energy on like, no we’re talking about life and living and quality of life. And I think this is where sort of like the, a, a journey that is touched by dementia and touched by grief at the same time. If we talk about grief on this channel, we’re talking about the change or halt of a familiar pattern or behavior.
And so change is just part of a dementia journey for a person and their loved ones. Everyone is unique. Everyone is really individual. And so that means that it’s not all gonna look like or feel like anybody else’s no matter if you have Alzheimer’s, which is what 70% of the folks with dementia are experiencing in Alzheimer’s experience or an of Alzheimer’s if you will, but it’s all still different.
And this is the same with grief. So it’s really important to just relax about like, “Hey, if you’re having the experience, you’re actually doing it right. If you’re having the experience.” I love it Jael. When you are talking about, Hey, the feelings are here and they get to be expressed and processed even in a nonverbal way. It still counts.
You are gonna say something…. Please…
Jael
When you are talking about the unique element of everyone’s experience, I think that’s something really, really important in grief and in dementia because humans hate unpredictability.
We like little tastes of it as like a, like a fun surprise, but we don’t like it on a like resonant interpersonal kind of cosmic level. We hate it. And so with grief and with dementia, we it’s instinctual. It’s completely understandable that we want a blueprint. We want to know what’s going to happen.
That’s why people are all the five stages of grief. Oh, I’m in anger. Now next steps bargaining, you know, it’s like, oh, sorry, but that’s not how it works. You’re gonna B around. And you’re gonna not really what’s happening or what stage you’re in, in multiple stages at the same time.
And that feels scary.
Same with dementia, right? Or, you know, specifically with Alzheimer’s because there’s so much research done about it.
We love to have some, some map right of this is gonna happen. And then this is gonna happen. And then you’re gonna experience this and then you’re gonna feel this, but our brains are all unique. And the way that they get impacted by dementia is all unique.
So there is no blueprint. And I think that’s an element that makes it really, really scary. Both grief and dementia,
Wendy
A hundred percent. Well, you know, like if we’re talking about our, our kind of primal brain from thoursands of years ago, when we were all trying to like survive in a cave, if you will.
We’re constantly having this voice in our head that says we’re not safe and we need to survive and evolve. And this is all of us here in this room right now, like we are shelter, we have beverages, we are enjoying technology in its high, like one of its highest forms, in my opinion.
And so, you know, like this is a connective piece.
And so it’s part like, it’s really a natural thing that we are hearing, “Hey, how am I gonna do this? I don’t know if I, I can do this.”
And we don’t, we don’t know if we can do it. We, well, what I’m gonna say is we may not know if we can do it, but we don’t sure know how to do it.
And this goes for I’m guessing caregivers care partners loved ones of the person who has dementia, but also, you know, like the entire family everybody’s identity kind of changes when someone in a family or in a, an organization has dementia.
What would you, what would you say to that?
Kaylee
I think, I think you’re absolutely hitting the nail on the head. So just to use a personal example: my dad is living with dementia. He has traumatic brain an injury, so it’s a TBI related dementia.
Our relationship is not very father-daughter, right? Our relationship is, is care partner and dad, dad with dementia. Right?
So I think what is hard about that is it’s a moving target, right? Is once I’ve figured out how Kaylee and dad are as father and daughter, that’s ripped away.
He’s had a brain injury. He’s in recovery. He’s changing… changing all the time. What’s this look like now? And then now, in my thirties, stepping up as a, you know, an at-home care partner with him. Okay, well, what’s that look like?
And knowing that dementia is a progressive disease, meaning it is terminal. It is going to be lifelong and it is going to end when his life ends.
And that I am going to meet many iterations of my dad.
And therefore my relationship to him will be ever shifting my approach.
That is going to be best suited for success for me and for him is going to be ever shifting. But what I, what I’ve been thinking about a lot lately is it isn’t that everybody isn’t that just relationships like the husband I met when he was my boyfriend at 27 is not who he is at 36.
That’s just, we’re, we’re completely different people.
I’m not who I was at girlfriend 23. You know, like he is a new version of himself. My sister, when she was a little girl is a very different sister than she is now. And all of our relationships go through this evolution, all of our relationships and all of us as individuals go through evolution and change and become new people.
And it’s, it’s the breaking of the mold in my head of here’s who I expect you to be. And here’s the box you’ve always fit into and realizing over and over again, that I don’t really know who you are, you know who you are.
And my expectation of who I need you to be is crumbling. And the less I hold onto that, the better I can adapt and actually meet you. Who, who, for who you are that day for who you are that minute. Right? Cause with dementia, it does sometimes change minute from minute,
Wendy
So I’m hearing being present. And this is like a, what can feel like an exhausting job sometimes.
Kaylee
Totally.
Wendy
To be present and to be awake like, wow. And that’s full…that’s like 24/7. What? Please allow me to sleep. Like, consciousness is something I would like to take a tiny break from. I have to take a nap.
Erin, I see you. And I would love to hear more around like awareness and change and feelings that come up. Just so people feel like if they’re experiencing say, symptoms of, or as a care partner, like what are some of the things that they may be wondering inside their bodies or wondering inside their minds and hearts like, “Is this normal and actually happening?”
Erin
Hmm. Yeah, really, really good question. And like with everything with dementia, it’s so different for each person. And that’s something that we, that we try to shout from the rooftops of the work we do with people.
It’s like, you know, the support we provided to this family, isn’t gonna be the same cookie cutter approach that we use with the next one.
So, in checking in with yourself about, you know, “Is this dementia? Is this just normal aging? Or, is this not-normal aging, but maybe it’s not even dementia?”
Like that’s still something that you have to look at from a really personal place, cuz we’re all starting from a different baseline, if you will.
So you wanna look at, you know, what’s different for that person. You know, if, if you’re somebody who always, you know, always loses their keys and never has things in a proper place, you know, and that’s kind of been how you’ve operated in life, your whole life, as soon as you get older and you, you know, can’t find your keys, I’d caution you from jumping to the conclusion, you know, “Oh my God, I must have the dementia.”
You know, that’s something you’ve been doing your whole life. That’s not unusual for that person. You know, however, if you’ve been somebody who’s really, you know, had established routines in your life, you know, you’ve always been able to, you know, find the, the words, you know, or the vocabulary to express yourself. And all of a sudden you’re really unable to, you know, successfully find that word. That might be a, a little clue for you, you know, to get yourself checked out.
And again, there might be so many other factors at play that have absolutely nothing to do with dementia.
There could be another mental health issue, a physical health issue, you know, something going on with medication, stress, stress. Yeah. I mean, lifestyle things. Yeah. Totally things that just put strain on our brain that can mimic dementia, like symptoms. You know, I know that when I’m stressed or I haven’t even gotten enough sleep, like I can’t find my words, you know, grief.
That is something that can mimic dementia-like symptoms.
Brain’s not firing at full capacity. So, you know, give yourself some grace out there and you know, I’d say just a couple telltale signs, you know, to keep an eye out is, you know, you’re, you’re unable to think the same as you did before or to, to complete tasks or go about your life the same way you could earlier in life. Getting started on a task, initiating sequencing and then completing a task and moving on, that’s usually kind of a sign like, Hmm, something’s going on? Something’s different.
Wendy
You know what comes up? Like, the thought occurs to me that entering into menopause is also similar in some of these symptoms. Like, please, if my experience has been anything, it really like everything you said, “I was like, ‘oh, that feels like menopause.'” So totally that’s another.
Erin
All your hormones are changed. Yes,
Wendy
Yes. Hormone enhanced or not like, this is what we’re going through. Yeah. Kaylee, what were you gonna say?
Kaylee
You know, what else is similar about dementia and menopause?
We don’t talk about it.
So when you’re walking through this experience, you’re like, “Am I crazy? Is, is this what it’s like?”
And, there’s this whole silent population that absolutely could tell you, “Yes, this is exactly what it’s like. Yes, we’re going through this journey.”
But there’s this social stigma that we don’t talk about. It, not at least not, you know, outwardly maybe a whisper to a close friend in your circle. Those really trusted inner relationships.
But as a society, as a whole, we’re not talking about menopause.
We’re not talking about dementia.
Wendy
Oh, grief, dementia, menopause. Like let’s just like, and you know, there are more things as well, but this is just sort of like scratching though. What are we not talking about? That is impacting us and our quality of life. Wow. We’re living.
Erin
We’re still living. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Definitely. One of those things that gets talked about in hush tones, behind closed doors. So we’re very open and loud and vocal about the big D word.
Wendy
Can we just continue on for a little bit longer around quality of life? Because this is still like, while we’re making meaning and while these things like the purpose is also to like enjoy and experience life.
I would love to hear from each of you kind of around that topic of quality of life, not only for the person with dementia, but also for the loved ones and care partners surrounding, including potentially coworkers, employees, like, it can out and show how connected we are. Kaylee. I’d love to start with you please.
Kaylee
Sure. Yeah. So one of the things that that gives us quality of life is connecting to the things we enjoy. Another is feeling useful. Another is having purpose and those are all things that I think we try to, to bring to our clients and to help them feel fulfilled in those ways we were talking earlier about how our identities and our sense of self grow and change over time, regardless of brain change and, and certainly in dementia.
But one of the things that also happens is there’s a through line of some of the core things that make us who we are and, and that we kind of hang our identities on. And one of the painful things about dementia is some of those things that you might have considered really core to your loved one is different is opposite, but they’re, they’re usually are still those small nuggets of, oh, well, that’s still the same.
You know, I can’t, I don’t recognize my mom at all, but she does still love gardening. Oh, great. Let’s get our hands dirty. Let’s put our, our fingers into the dirt.
Let’s find ways that she can do things. She still loves to do find purpose, be useful. All of those things can be done with gardening. Right.
And when I see that with music, one of the things that I think is really profound on the other side for the loved one, to find those things and to, in those connections is they get to kind of visit their memory of who their loved one used to be through a song.
So if you find that song that really lights them up, that really engages them and helps them kind of come to life and brighten up. Then you, as the loved one are looking at your, your person and recognizing them, “oh my gosh, I haven’t seen dad smile like that in such a long time.”
Oh, he was just like him old, his old self again. Right.
And it’s that power of taking these creative elements and, and using them to tap into those parts of ourselves that are still there that are always there that are maybe buried behind a haze of symptoms and medications and setting, and you know, these different things that keep us from thriving.
Then you find the right piece, you find the right approach and you get to kind of have a door into their world and you get to share a world for a moment. Right.
One of the things that I’ve said, and it’s actually something, my mom and I were talking about, her dad also has dementia.
So my mom and I are on these cool, like parallel journeys together.
She was talking about, is it worth it to, you know, take grandpa to do these things and, and, you know, spend all this time, cuz by the time I drop him off at home, he doesn’t remember, I am not always this profound, but I just had a moment where I said, “Mom, the memories are for us. The moments are for him.”
We’re creating moments with him. That’s where he’s living. He’s living in the present. He’s living in the moment.
You get to take those memories, right. You’re not creating memories for grandpa right now. That’s not where he is anymore.
Create those beautiful moments. And then you get to hold those memories. That’s your role now as somebody who gets to take his legacy, take his life, take his memories on, into the future and kind of shepherd that you hold the, those memories now.
Wendy
So good. So, so good. Thank you. And I imagine like, you know, for many of the care partners and caregivers care shares that I know it is also important for them to reconnect with things that they find connection with and meaning with and usefulness with.
Because while there may be a lot that gets learned or taken on often with other members of the household, there’s still a need for time to connect with yourself and you know, and with your person who has dementia, but like those get to be for you too. What else? Erin? I’d love to hear. Yes.
Erin
To that point. I think the importance of care partners reconnecting with what’s important to them goes hand in hand with a lot of people’s decision.
Do I keep mom or dad at home or do I move them into a care community? And that is a conversation that can like, hold that dialectic of like, right. This is for me, like I know that they’re gonna end up getting the better care of being in the better environment that they need to be and I’m gonna get the relief.
And then on the other hand, I’m gonna have the grief and guilt of like them being, putting mom in a home. You know, we find that a lot. I don’t know if I mentioned before, but I, I run a memory care here locally.
So I’m working a lot with families who are navigating that really complex choice to make for themselves and for their loved one.
And then always, you know, just trying to gear it back to a, a radical act of self care for everybody. Right. You know, being able to recognize when you, you don’t have the wherewithal, you know, whether it’s the awareness or the skills or just the bandwidth to be able to care for somebody while, you know, also maintaining your own life and your own self care.
I don’t take for granted that people trust me and my team of people to care for their most beloved person in their most vulnerable time. So it’s a big leap of faith on family’s part and then being able to come be with them. And like Kay said, like to have the moments right. To have those moments that, that for their loved one is, is really just a moment like I’ve come connection.
But for that family member, that’s a memory that they can take home and put that in their, you know, memory bank and support as they go through their own grief process. So
Wendy
I think that’s so amazing because you know, like one thing that we talked about just a few minutes ago was the roles and how roles change.
And so when you’re considering the best possible care for this person, what if like the role of care partner is not one that is great for you? You don’t have to take on a guilt perspective, like the thoughts of guilt or the thoughts of like, what do we make it mean when the best possible care gonna come from?
Uh, somebody else. And what do we make that mean about us? That’s totally a personal unique experience that we get to go through ourselves. And so, you know, if you get to trade-in the care partner role in order to be the spouse or the daughter or the partner or the, the, whoever you can be your best possible role in identity, but this is, this is just one thing.
So it’s like wild, how many facets and how many touch points this connects with yeah, this is blowing my mind, this whole conversation. Jael, I would love to hear a little bit more from you and then final, final thoughts coming out.
Jael
Yeah. You know, I think two things that kind of were like bubbled up for me as I was listening to Kaylee and Erin talk about, you know, quality of life and self care.
And that realm of things is kind of two separate, but intersecting pieces, right? So on the self care side, from a care partner perspective, we talk a lot about the kind of internal judgment and shame cultivated around not being able to do enough or be enough. And, uh, there is a, a pretty high percentage of, um, people who provide care, who are women and women really in our culture specifically like really struggle to prioritize themselves.
It is seen as a, a selfless, generous, morally superior way to be, to give and give and do and care for, and really give all of ourselves in service of another. And there is something beautiful about being able to a piece of ourself in service of another, but to give all of ourself means there is none of us left and that halts our journey and it also then uses up our internal resource to continue care or to care for another, or to care for multiple people, right.
Or to continue caring. And so when we talk about self care, it’s become such a kind of commodified concept of, you know, buy this fizzy bath bomb and do your self care. And it’s like a bubble bath is phenomenal, but it can only do so much existential restoration, I guess it depends on the bath, honestly, but
Wendy
If someone’s like going through my finances at the same time, great, I’ll take the bath. But a lot of times self care does not feel so super good.
Jael
Exactly
Wendy
Until after.
Jael
Right. Right. Exactly. It’s a, it’s really a, a brave to do, to choose, to continue nourishing yourself as you’re nourishing someone else. And also that connected me to the kind of second piece around identity and as a care partner, our identities shift so frequently in life.
But we still kind of hold on really tightly to particular versions of our identity. And so if we have always been seen as the selfless mother, right, or the daughter who has it all together to radically changed that and start prioritizing ourself and making different choices than people have known us to historically make, that is hard.
People in social systems really struggle. When someone who has been a, a, a major support piece shifts to prioritize themself, that’s really difficult for systems to, to tolerate, but it is possible. And we help families and communities do that care communities do that because that’s the only sustainable way for it to be.
Wendy
Oh my gosh. So grateful. So glad this has been such an amazing first conversation. I’m just throwing it out. Their first of several conversations with the Creative Dementia Collective. Thank you each so much for your care and your attention and your gigantic hearts for this work and your energy for this work.
It’s a delight to speak with you. All the contact information you could ever need is gonna be in them, show notes, coming out when we drop this episode. So you definitely have a way to contact the Collective.
And then each of the members individually as desired. I know I follow your Instagram like religiously. I’ll go ahead and say it spiritually, religiously, actively. You can guys really have it together. So please continue on and please come back. Will you come back?
Erin
Yes, please.
Jael
Oh, absolutely. I already have 70 topics. I wanna talk about with you, Wendy. I think,
Erin
Yeah. Wait, I have like 15 different thoughts going right now.
Wendy
Yum. Yum. Okay. Day tune. More to come take care. Thank You.
Hi, it’s Wendy. Thank you so much for listening. If something resonated or stuck out or sort of hummed with you in this episode, and you want to either talk more about it or have me talk more about it. let’s schedule a Connection Call.
It could be that you are ready to learn how to release emotional pain. This sounds great. It’s great to do. And it’s great on the other side. Regardless, you’re invited.
So if you think it’s time for a free 45 minute connection call, I would love to have that with you. Go to wendy@hearthealingfromloss.com to email and schedule, or you can text or call 2 0 6 4 9 8 8 0 2 5 and schedule it that way. I would love to talk with you and I would love to listen to you too. Thank you. And thanks for coming back for the next episode too.
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(206) 498-8025
wendy@hearthealingfromloss.com